Odd Ball V8’s “TR8 Pre Production?”
There are quite a few cars with owners present and past claiming them to be factory pre production TR8’s yet they often don’t have a chassis number, and use the body number instead, or they have a TR7 chassis number and or even a made up chassis number. Claimed histories for some of these cars are very creative at times with the slim truth often buried some where within. These cars are generally not cheap to buy, so you really do need some form of proof. Some of the cars below were sold at the Measham auctions August/September 1981 so we do know for a fact that those cars at least, are genuine test/development/exp cars even if the rest is all a bit fuzzy!
Proof
For me to be a TR8 Pre Production the car needs to have a factory vin/chassis number which can be traced at Gaydon and a Heritage certificate produced! That certificate will state its a TR8 and will give a clue to how the factory used the car and if it was development for example. This example clearly identifies the car as a RHD home market TR8 that was retained by BL for development purposes. That is absolute proof!
There are also some TR8 Pre Production cars claiming to have been modified by BL MOTORSPORT Abingdon, for which you would need proof such as this actual memo from BL Motorsport for the Green RHD development TR8.
What is not proof is a letter/info sheet from the current/previous owner stating Fred Bloggs worked on it at BL Motorsport Abingdon or in the methods build department, it went to America for testing then it was brought back etc etc.
Quite why people buy such expensive cars without actual verifiable proof is at times beyond me, but they still continue to do so! No proof don’t buy it simple! Doesn’t matter how good the story is, as chances are its made up at worst, or heavily embellished at best.
What Happened at the time
There were a large number of pre production/test/development V8 powered cars produced at Speke in Liverpool. When the plant closed and production moved to Canley these cars were gathered up put on transporters and sent down to Canley.
Peter Wilson (Engineering consultant at BL) told me he remembers seeing about three transporters moving the TR8 pre production/test/development cars down to Canley.
Garry Owen (TR8 Manger Canley/Solihull) inspected the cars when they arrived at Canley and most were consigned to scrap as they were in a very poor state. I asked Garry what scraping actually meant and he said they removed the chassis plates from the cars, deregistered with DVLA, and removed number plates, then they were either sent to external scrap yards, or in the case of cars with usable parts they were sent to various departments within BL to be cannibalised as required. The cars that weren’t scrapped all have R 76, S 77 and T 78 registrations where as the odd balls seem to have later V 79, W 80 and X 81 which is odd for essentially 1976 to 78 cars. If they were later TCN chassis cars built 79/80 then that is possible, and there are obviously valid exceptions, but there does seem to be a trend for those claiming to be early pre production (should be ACN chassis number) indicating its worth asking a lot more questions. As the number plates had been removed they were in effect registered again by their new owners! Quite a few of these cars have surfaced over the years, often just registered with the body number, it being the only ID left on the cars. But quite a few do have chassis numbers as well with both TR7 and TR8 chassis plates being used so who knows how they were retained. I can only conclude workers at the time found a clever way to acquire the cars for themselves and others outside. If anyone does know how employees managed to get hold of them for themselves, friends and family I would be very interested to know.
The ones not scraped
Those “FEW” deemed to be worth keeping were later sold at Measham such as SHP658R which does still have a chassis number which in this case, is a genuine TR8 one, ACN00012.
SHP658R RHD MANUAL Brooklands Green – Green check trim – Earliest known registered UK TR8
This car is the one shown in Hardcastle’s Rover V8 book, note the SPRINT makings along with a V8 fitted which match exactly SHP658R.
Cars that have surfaced in Auctions recently
JVC842V RHD MANUAL Brooklands Green – Tan nylon cord trim
Was auctioned at Mathewson’s and sold for 17k. This car has a TR7 chassis number ACW with a 13E engine number which was the engine series commonly used on a lot of test/preproduction/development cars. It has often been said sometimes a TR7 shell was used, as is the claimed case here, but I have always wondered, as surely it would have been a lot easier and quicker to use a TR8 already built up than to spend a lot of time modifying a TR7. ACW is a LHD North American chassis number, so the car would have originally been LHD. As the car is now RHD its more likely this was done later after it was sold rather than the factory having done it. Why send it to the USA for testing and then ship the car back when it was normal procedure to leave the car over there, instead of incurring costs to ship it back once the test results were known. I can’t help but think the history claimed is a bit mixed up here as the dispatched to USA on 12th of April seems to have come from a Heritage certificate for just a straight forward USA TR7. However, this car was sold at Measham Friday 14th August 1981 for £4300 so it is certainly a genuine test/development/exp car, more than that currently can’t be confirmed.
The seller/Owner Claimed History for this car but no absolute proof I have seen. As this has a TR7 chassis number it should be possible to get a heritage certificate.
This car was built as a TR7 at the Speke Merseyside factory between 16th
and 20th March 1978. It was taken off the line and converted to TR8 spec
and was dispatched to the USA on 12th April. There is no trace of a
destination dealer, and was sent to the States for evaluation and testing
purposes along with others. It was equipped as what was to become
known as USA California specification, which included fuel injection and
catalytic convertors!, although sometime in the car’s history these were
removed to increase power.
The car was brought back to the UK, and presumably converted to right
hand drive. It was registered in the UK on the 2nd January 1980 to BL
Cars(Triumph plant) Canley, Coventry CV4 9DB.
The car was subsequently sold on 5th February 1982 to a private collector
with connections to the factory, where it remained until 14th January
1994. Since then there have been 2 changes of ownership. The mileage
on the clock is genuine and indeed some years the mileage was as low as
75 miles. Between Jan 1983 and Apr 1996 (13 years) the total mileage
covered by the car was 6059 miles!
Under the bonnet is a 3 ½ litre Rover V8 engine having the American
spec and air conditioning unit. As built with the catalytic convertors the
power output would have been approx 148bhp @ 5000rpm. Torque
would have been approx 180lbs/ft @ 3000rpm., and estimated top speed
of 126mph.
The car has not been modified in any way apart from the fitting of new
coil springs, shock absorbers and anti-dive bar.
Genuine TR8’s are rare cars. The exact number made is not exactly
known. It is believed there were about 70 pre-production models built for
testing, approximately 2600 made in left hand drive for the American
market, and it is known that only 18 were made in right hand drive for the
home market in 1980 and 1981.
My wife and I have owned this car for 27 years, and during this time it
has been meticulously maintained. It was professionally restored in 2013
by the specialist vehicle restorers ‘The Carrosserie Company’ in Barnard
Castle with no expense spared.
The car (now 45 years old) has covered just 34,000 miles to date, which
can be verified by all the MOT certificates since 1983. A very large
history file comes with the car.
HOJ156W LHD AUTO White – Black nylon cord trim
Was auctioned at HISTORICS AUCTIONEERS and failed to sell, best bid was 13k. Given the similar car above but RHD and manual sold for 17k the 13k seemed to me at least reasonable. This car has no chassis number and is registered with a body number T044276CG so could be one of the scrapped cars from Speke but very hard to prove one way or another. It has a 13E engine number which was the engine series commonly used on a lot of test/preproduction/development cars. Also as this car has no chassis plate we can’t say the year it was built. The claimed year in the advert is 1981, which essentially was the end of production, so definitely no development cars would have been built then given the factory was winding down. The badging design is essentially an early pre production 76/77 car as per SHP658R above. Another source I have access to states this car was actually built 1976. The claimed history says the car “then BL Cars had a great sale of vehicles on 29th December 1980,” the only great sale known about, was the Measham auctions August/September 1981. This car is not listed as being sold at that auction.
The seller/Owner Claimed History for this car but no absolute proof I have seen. As this has no chassis number and only a body number it would not be possible to get a heritage certificate.
This examples bodyshell was assembled and painted at the Speke factory in early 1976. It was then transported to the Longbridge factory Methods Build Department for final assembly as a test vehicle. The car was assembled in a way to test the feasibility and variations required for assembly line processes. This vehicle was specifically set up for the American market with looming emission regulations and in a left hand drive variant therefore it has twin two-way catalytic converters, EGR and manifold air blowing systems. Fuel tank sealed vent system and charcoal canister. The emissions from this car are as good as modern-day vehicles. This type of vehicle was meant for manufacture as the TR7 V8 (later known as the TR8) specifically but not ultimately intended for production in the Speke factory. Due to events and industrial relations at the time this never happened.
During development HOJ 156W was initially used as a runabout for Mr Bob Hart of the Longbridge Methods Build Department, he used it for as long as he could get a supply of unleaded fuel sent down at the time from the Speke factory. It was then stored away at the Longbridge factory for some five years. Development vehicles such as this would normally be crushed but because this car had been used by the factory and was road worthy (registered under a factory number HOJ 156W to BL Cars Ltd Longbridge), when BL Cars had a great sale of vehicles on 29th December 1980, it was able to be sold. The first private owner was Mr R K Johnson, he had worked at the factory and had been keeping a good eye on the car, he jumped in and purchased it as soon as it became available on 9th January 1981.
Mr Johnson owned the car for several years then sold it to a close friend who also happened to work at the Longbridge factory, a Mr T C King who purchased on 23rd March in 1988. Mr King thought it would be good to use it for hill climbing racing events and as a result became a lesser vehicle. The car was sold again three years later and suffered a bit more neglect with an owner who didn’t understand the importance of the car, indeed the car was in a bad way and required a fair amount of restoration when it was purchased by our vendor, a Triumph Owners Club member, Mr Ian Tinsey on 14th February 1992. Initially, the car was to be a long-term project car, and Ian remembers driving it home hoping it would make it! However, when he started working on the car he noticed rather unusual items/design details that didn’t align with the car so he began to research, once the history had been traced it became evident that the car was unique and needed to be restored to the original factory specifications.
Not what he has anticipated but upon every turn he only found more provenance so a full nut and bolt restoration to exacting standards, as it would have been with the Methods Build Department, was undertaken insuring that parts the car was made from were preserved. A left hand drive non-sunroof example, this is as it would have been at the factory…perhaps better! The odometer reads just 27,614 miles and the restoration which was completed in the 90’s is still fresh today. The car has graced many club and national events to document the TR7 history, the history file is comprehensive and holds letters from ex-Longbridge employees remembering and detailing the car, one even drawing a map as to where the car was stored.
This restored to original specification, retaining its development/prototype designs example of the TR7 V8 is not only full of Triumph and British history but it is also a car that could be driven and enjoyed should you wish, even the air conditioning runs ice cold. Coupled to the three speed BorgWarner automatic gearbox, this TR7 V8 has to be viewed to be appreciated, put aside an hour to enjoy the history file because this is a very special car. Consigned by Mathew Priddy
HVC565V RHD MANUAL Black was yellow! – Red check trim
Was auctioned on eBay final price not known. This car has a correct TR8 chassis number ACN00023 but the story of being built by BL Motorsport is very doubtful with no proof supplied. Also as this is essentially a 77 car by its ACN number it seems odd the registration plate is V which is 1979 some two years after it was built. However this car was sold at Measham August/September 1981 so it is certainly a genuine test/development/exp car, more than that currently can’t be confirmed.
The seller/Owner Claimed History for this car but no absolute proof I have seen. This car has a TR8 chassis number ACN00023
The owner tells us the car was built as one of a small number of V8 prototype TR7s, a different car to the TR8 or DIY converted home brew V8s,
so was owned by BL for the first few years, evidence of this being the under bonnet sticker denoting it as a V8 TR7 (note early stickers all said TR7V8 so not that special and certainly not any indication of the car being different). Its then thought, to have spent time as a development car for the BL competitions department before being sold to Dennis Golding, a sports race car garage in London who the current owner acquired the car from around 1990 when he used this fire breathing, rear wheel drive manual beast as his everyday car, no doubt surprising a few BMWs and 3 litre Capris at the traffic lights!
When he stopped using it, it was parked in this barn where is has remained untouched.
XUA16X RHD MANUAL White – Red check trim
This car has no chassis number and is registered with a body number T0524776CG so could be one of the scrapped cars from Speke but very hard to prove one way or another. It does however have the engine number 13E00001 which indicates it was indeed a test/pre production/development car as that engine series was used almost exclusively by such cars. Another source I have access to states this car was actually built 1975 which would tie in with the very low engine number and welded additional bump on the bonnet.
No known information on this car! The bonnet has had modifications to add the extra bump suggesting this was very early perhaps. The 13E00001 engine is obviously the very first in that series which commonly was used by test and development cars.