Is it a genuine TR8?

Genuine factory TR8 or not?

 

Genuine factory TR8 or not? – The question I’m asked more than any other is, how do you tell if the car you are looking at is a genuine factory TR8. The main reasons for being asked are:

 

  • TR7s converted to V8 power are frequently authentically badged as TR8’s thus outwardly seemingly the same.

 

  • The value of a “good original condition” factory TR8 LHD is around 20 to 30k and a RHD one 40 to 50k. Compare that with an average TR7V8 in excellent condition at 7 to 15k and there is a sizeable price difference. There are obviously exceptions to that for exceptional cars, so I’m talking “good original condition” average across the board.

 

So how to tell the difference when from the outside they look almost identical?

TR7 Conversion – OBVIOUS Clue on this one is S&S Preparations on the number plate. They were a conversion specialist from the mid 80’s.

LHD GENUINE TR8 EFi 1981

RHD GENUINE TR8 CARB 1980

 

  • The chassis number is No1 for defining proof with perhaps being coupled with a Heritage certificate, for absolute 100% proof.

 

Chassis numbers used by TR8’s are as follows.

 

RED designates FHC TR8 chassis identifier. Chassis number doesn’t lie, owners may, so beware!

TR8 FHC – prefix (ACN) N = TR8 FHC

USA/Canada / Speke 1977/78 Year Cars

Chassis
1: Assembly: A = Speke
2: Model range: C = TR7/8
3: Specification: N = TR8 FHC
4: Number 012345 etc = number in series
5: Suffix: U = North American
6: Suffix: F = 5 speed gearbox
7: Suffix: A = Automatic gearbox
8: Suffix L = the other left-hand drive cars
9: Suffix: C = exhaust control is fitted
10:Suffix: M = Canadian specification

ACN 00001 to 00116 (Not all the numbers in this series were used)

ACN 01001 to 01200 (Not all numbers in this series were used and 01200 may not be the uppermost number used)

 

TR8 FHC – prefix (TCN) N = TR8 FHC

USA/Canada / Canley 1978/79 Year Cars

Chassis
1: Assembly: T = Canley
2: Model range: C = TR7/8
3: Specification: N = TR8 FHC
4: Number: 012345 etc = number in series
5: Suffix: U = North American
6: Suffix: F = 5 speed gearbox
7: Suffix: A = Automatic gearbox
8: Suffix L = the other left-hand drive cars
9: Suffix: C = exhaust control is fitted
10:Suffix: M = Canadian specification

TCN 150001 to 150198 (78 model year)

TCN 160001 to 160142 (79 model year)

Note It is likely that some or all of these numbers were not used.

 

TR8 DHC – prefix (TCV) V = TR8 DHC

USA/Canada / Canley 1979 Year Cars

Chassis
1: Assembly: T = Canley
2: Model range: C = TR7/8
3: Specification: V = TR8 DHC
4: Number: 012345 etc = number in series
5: Suffix: U = North American
6: Suffix: F = 5 speed gearbox
7: Suffix: A = Automatic gearbox
8: Suffix L = the other left-hand drive cars
9: Suffix: C = exhaust control is fitted
10:Suffix: M = Canadian specification

TR8 (TCV) Some cars were built with chassis numbers from TCV 200001 upwards for the 1979 model year. As with most things Triumph orientated in the 70’s and 80’s, accurate record making was anything but accurate, so it’s probably better to say exact amount of TR8 (TCV)‘s is likely to remain unknown. More so as there is one known  example with possibly? a TCN FHC chassis number

 

TR8 DHC – prefix (TPADV) 5th Digit – V = 3.5 litre V8 (TR8)

NOTE: For the last 9 RHD TR8’s built, the V 5th Digit and A 3rd Digit have been transposed so the V = 3.5 litre V8 (TR8) is now the 3rd Digit, so for example TPVDA. Most likely caused by the change over from Canley to Solihull and workers unfamiliar wit the correct layout.

 

USA/Canada / Canley Solihull 1980/81 Year Cars

Chassis
1: Make of car T = Triumph
2: Model range: P = TR7/8
3. Specification: A = UK or Europe
K = Australia
V = U.S.A., Federal (49 states)
Z = U.S.A., California
L = Canada
J = Japan
4. Type of body: E = Coupe
D = Convertible
5. Type of engine: J = 2 litre (TR7)
V = 3.5 litre V8 (TR8)
6. Steering, Gear box: 3 = RHD. Automatic
4 = LHD, Automatic
7 = RHD, Manual
8 = LHD, Manual
7. Model year change: A = 1980 Model Year
8. Assembly plant: T = Canley
9. Number 6 digits

 

 

TR8 DHC – prefix (SATTPADV) 6th Digit after SAT – V = 3.5 litre V8 (TR8)

European / Home / USA/Canada Solihull 1980/81 Year Cars

Chassis
1: Global ID SAT = Triumph World ID (Not used on all cars!)
2: Make of car T = Triumph
3: Model range: P = TR7/8
4. Specification A = UK or Europe
K = Australia
V = U.S.A., Federal (49 states)
Z = U.S.A., California
L = Canada
J = Japan
5. Type of body: E = Coupe
D = Convertible
6. Type of engine: J = 2 litre (TR7)
V = 3.5 litre V8 (TR8)
7. Steering, Gear box: 3 = RHD. Automatic
4 = LHD, Automatic
7 = RHD, Manual
8 = LHD, Manual
8. Model year change: A = 1980 Model Year
B = 1981 Model Year (not have been used on rest or the world cars – USA CANADA Only)
C = 1982 Model Year (not have been used on rest or the world cars – CANADA Only)
9. Assembly plant: T = Canley
A = Solihull
10. Number 6 digits

USA/Canada Solihull 1980/1 Year Cars

 

 

 

TR8 DHC – prefix (SATTPADVA + CHECK DIGIT) 7th Digit – 5 = 3.5 litre V8 (TR8)

USA/Canada Solihull 1981/82 Year Cars

Chassis
1: Continent S = Europe
2: Country A = UK
3: Manufacturer T = Triumph
4: Model range: P = TR7/8
5. Specification A = UK or Europe
K = Australia
V = U.S.A., Federal (49 states)
Z = U.S.A., California
L = Canada
J = Japan
6. Type of body: 5 = Coupe
4 = Convertible
7. Type of engine: 1 = 2 litre (TR7)
5 = 3.5 litre V8 (TR8)
8. Steering, Gear box: 4 = RHD. Automatic
8 = RHD Manual
9. Check digit Mathematically worked out
10. Model year change: A = 1980 Model Year
B = 1981 Model Year (not have been used on rest or the world cars – USA CANADA Only)
C = 1982 Model Year (not have been used on rest or the world cars – CANADA Only)
11. Assembly plant: A = Solihull
12. Number 6 digits

USA/Canada Solihull 1981/82 Year Cars

 

EXP TR8’s

Have their own EXP numbering system and there are a tiny handful that are to all intents and purposes TR8’s. They will have a heritage certificate to prove that, along with other supporting documentation.

Summary

If the car you are looking at doesn’t have one of the above chassis numbers then 99.9% it isn’t. The tiny 0.01% belongs to a very small amount of mis stamped cars along with some test cars that used TR7s off the line modified to TR8 spec, that you could argue either way actually qualify. If you buy one of these cars you really want that backed up with a heritage certificate or walk away no matter what colourful story the owner tells you. Trust me when I say I have been told some very plausible stories that later turn out to be wishful thinking. There is one more section and that is the EXP cars of which there are a handful. For each of these there is proof in the form of heritage certificates.

Other

The two chassis plates on a USA spec 8 can be found on a silver plate visible in the window and on a plate in the door shut area which can’t be seen unless the door is open. US style TR8 plate P/N TKC5574 in the door. A TR7 US style plate is P/N TKC4544.

Silver plate visible in the window

Plate in the door shut area which can’t be seen unless the door is open

 

The single chassis plate on a UK spec 8 is found on a plate on the suspension turret inside the engine bay, so can’t be seen from the outside.

For the first two RHD UK spec TR8’s built they have the US style TR8 plate P/N TKC5574 (correct weight 1420kg) in the correct UK position and with the correct TR8 chassis number stamped.

The only Automatic RHD TR8 for reasons unknown, ended up with a TR7 chassis number and TR7 plate P/N TKC4542 (wrong weight 1340kg) this car is a 0.01% car and is verified by Heritage as being a RHD TR8.

For the first batch of 9 from late 1980 they all actually have the TR7 chassis plate TKC4542 (wrong weight 1340kg – LHS) fitted as well, but with the correct TR8 chassis number stamped, so yet another manufacturing mistake of which there are quite a few on the UK spec RHD TR8’s.

For the other methods build manual car and the last batch of 9 from March 1981 they all have the correct TR8 plate TKC6764 (correct weight 1420kg RHS) for the RHD TR8 but this time they are mis-stamped, transposing the V and A. You can tell the TR8 plate TKC6764 at a distance as the 031013 has the first 0 lining up with the gap under BL over towards the left, and the TR7 plate TKC4542 has it more central. Also the weights move over to the RHS instead of being on the LHS ala TR7 as well as now being correct for a TR8 at 1420kg.

However just to make things more complex, the reproduction UK Spec TR8 plates TKC6764 that are currently available from major Triumph suppliers are actually WRONG – see below and note in particular the position of 031013 is now central and the font size for paint and trim in particular are larger.

This one is REPRO and WRONG as the 031013 is central not to the LHS as the originals are.

So, from the outside with doors and bonnet shut only a USA spec 8 can clearly be identified from the outside.

 

(2) So, what can we see from the outside that might confirm a factory 8.

 

Rev Counter

The rev counter is red lined at 5.5k whereas the TR7 one is 6k. These are very hard to find now, but some conversions do have them as they were freely available for quite a while.

The rev counter is red lined at 5.5k whereas the TR7 one is 6k

Steering Wheel

This ONLY applies to the DHC (convertible) as the FHC (Hard Top) was fitted with the TR7 steering wheel although you will find plenty of FHC’s that have been given the TR8 steering wheel later on by their owners. Also this steering wheel was fitted to the TR7 Spider and TR7 European special edition which was a black DHC with Red or Silver badging respectively.

The original steering wheel was actually made by Moto Lita France so on the back is stamped made in France. The original wheels have recessed screws at the front whereas the new ones available from suppliers currently, have a ring placed over the top. The originals are very hard to find now but some conversions do have them.

Original says made in France and has recessed screws

Genuine TR8 steering wheel. Gold centre is an option

Trim

Interior trim for TR8’s to 1980 is the same as TR7s. But all 1981 TR8’s including all the RHD ones, either have blue or tan velour. A very small amount of TR7s and Canadian TR8’s also had that trim much earlier circa 1979 but they were all LHD. So, for identification of genuine RHD TR8’s they should all have the velour trim. Obviously, there will be the odd car where the trim has disintegrated over time and it has been replaced with check that being the only trim still available.

Blue Velour Trim

Tan Velour Trim

 

Glove Box

There should be a TR8 glove box badge but like the rest of the TR8 badges these are easily available.

 

So, from the outside with the bonnet closed, very difficult to tell apart unless a chassis number plate is in the window.

 

BUT if you get down on your hands and knees and look under the front you will just be able to see the:

Power Steering Rack

identifiable by all the hydraulic pipes coming off it from underneath. TR7’s do not have power steering as standard. These are very difficult to get hold of now and very rarely seen in a conversion. Less than 0.01% conversions have this in place. You will however find conversions that use the SD1 rack but that is easy to spot as not genuine given the much bigger pump system.

TR8 pump has a unique look to the top of it.

Looking down from above.

 

(3) Being able to see in the engine bay makes identification much easier.

 

 

Engine Numbers

The engine numbers used by the TR8 are unique, any other letter after the number other than E almost certainly means it’s not factory.

 

10E00001 Manual USA (Federal) Carb. 8.13:1 This number as the standard spec base unit V8 was used on TEST and Development TR8’s as well. The first two RHD UK spec TR8’s have this engine number, where as the remainder of the 22 use either the 20E or 21E.

 

11E00001 Automatic USA (Federal) Carb. 8.13:1

 

12E00001 Manual USA (California) Carb 8.13:1

 

13E0001 Automatic USA (California) Carb 8.13:1 This number has actually been used on the majority of TEST and Development TR8’s in both manual and automatic as well as carb and EFi. Possibly they used so few in actual production, that they decided to use them up elsewhere.

 

14E00001 Manual USA (All) E.F.I. 8.13:1

 

15E00001 Automatic USA (All) E.F.l. 8.13:1

 

20E00001 Manual RHD UK Carb 9.35:1

 

21E00001 Automatic RHD UK Carb 9.35:1

 

EXP was used on TEST and Development TR8’s in both manual and automatic as well as carb and EFi. Not always on EXP cars sometimes on others.

Engine number is located down by dip stick in RED box

 

Inertia switch/Fuel cut off

Fuel cut off switch was used on all factory TR8’s. A circular one was used on earlier cars,

Location of switch holding clip

Pops up when activated. Push down to reactivate

 

and a square one from 1979/1980 onwards including the RHD TR8’s which makes this an easy genuine check. Less than 0.01% conversions have this in place.

Located on the Drivers side for LHD or RHD

Pops up and shows red when activated. Push down to reactivate

 

Brakes

Brake servo for a TR8 has a cross/plus whereas for a TR7 this is an X.

TR8 servos are now very hard to find, so much so, some TR8’s have had to be fitted with TR7 ones particularly in the UK.

TR8 Servo + shape and round centre

TR7 Servo X shape and square centre

 

Fuel System

Stromberg dual carbs or Lucas Bosch Efi are the only factory systems anything else is not factory. Some owners gave up on the Efi system and have fitted a Holly or similar.

TR8 Carb setup

TR8 EFi setup

 

Body Number

Many body plates have been lost over the years and cars re-shelled so they are a guide only to originally FHC/DHC LHD/RHD

BBP plate

CHP plate

 

T00XXXXCK = LHD FHC

T00XXXXCG = RHD FHC

BAP = LHD DHC

BBP = RHD DHC

CGP = LHD DHC

CHP 100 SERIES = LHD Seems to have been used on a few TCN TR8’s.

CHP 300 SERIES = RHD This was used on 21 of the 22 RHD TR8’s and they are all in the 300 series up to 727

 

Battery

Battery for the TR7 is in the front and the TR8 in the boot. This used to be a very easy way to tell, but owners of converted cars soon realised it gave the game away quickly and that weight distribution was better so many moved their batteries to the boot ala factory.

 

Two types of battery boot mounting for the TR8.

 

Early FHC cars ACN and TCN have the battery installed in a very neat box. Not all cars have this and over time the boxes have been damaged and replaced with the frame system.

 

Later DHC cars moved to a frame/bracket arrangement with a boot mat that fastens to a press stud on the top frame to conceal the battery from view.

Not conclusive if the battery is in the boot but certainly defines a converted TR7 if it’s still in the front.

 

Conclusion

There are other giveaways such as a metal plate running under the carpet on the right-hand side to protect the power cables for an original TR8, which you can see the shape of through the carpet. TR8 brake callipers are bigger and made by AP and the disks are larger, but I have confined myself here to the more obvious easy to see items. There are a VERY tiny percentage 0.001% of TR8’s that might qualify BUT, don’t tick all the boxes above, but, if that is the case, they will have a Heritage certificate that proves it. Previous owners said it was built by BL in secret during the night shift etc are almost certainly parts cars built at the end of production from whatever parts wandered out of the back gate late at night of which there were many…………………